histoni May 2008

histoni@lists.oulu.fi

26 participants
61 discussions

RE: [Bklist] feedback and one dark idea
by Lloyd Ruddock 15 May '08

15 May '08

I don't get paid extra for marking MSc thesis, but I suspect if we tried this it would cause a riot AND I think that other people SHOULD get extra remuneration for marking thesis because they take so long to mark properly. However, I have thought about prizes etc as a way of motivating students (lots of other university systems have them), but it does not seem the "Finnish way" and how motivating is it really for most students? (student opinions welcome please). We do have the "placement funds" (I can't remember the proper name for it at the moment) for 3rd and higher year students which allow students to get summer placements for biochemistry work where they like (assigned by random draw but you have to have completed certain courses to get into the draw) which should help to motivate students (but do 1st and 2nd year students know they will have this chance?) -----Original Message----- From: bklist-bounces(a)lists.oulu.fi [mailto:bklist-bounces@lists.oulu.fi] On Behalf Of Ulrich Bergmann Sent: 15. toukokuuta 2008 12:13 To: bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi Subject: [Bklist] feedback and one dark idea I'm trying to make a probably unpopular suggestion that I have incubated for long time, but the nice discussion about our teaching has motivted me to bring it forward. So I mean, hopefully I won't get stoned or secretely pushed down the stairs, we have to read and mark thesis books as part of our work and although it's part of the normal work (in my understanding), we get extra money for it. How if we would use this money (it goes anyway to taxes in a far to high proportion) for some purpose meant to motivate students in their learning etc.; we could implement a prize (or two) or a stipend or pay some salary for special student- work project. Uli _______________________________________________ Bklist mailing list Bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi http://lists.oulu.fi/mailman/listinfo/bklist

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Kutsu Työnantajamaine2008 -tutkimukseen
by Sari Vähäkangas 15 May '08

15 May '08

Kutsu Työnantajamaine2008 -tutkimukseen (DL 18.5) Tervetuloa vastaamaan Työnantajamaine2008 -tutkimukseen. Mielipiteesi on meille tärkeä, olitpa sitten ensimmäisen vuoden opiskelija tai jo oman alasi työkokemusta omaava tekijä. Vastausaikaa on 18.5 saakka. Vastaaminen kannattaa, sillä jokainen vastaaja saa halutessaan omien vastaustensa perusteella tehdyn työnhakijaprofiilin, jossa on verrattu vastaajan omia mielipiteitä muiden opiskelijoiden mielipiteisiin työelämästä ja työnantajista. Kaikkien vastanneiden kesken arvomme uuden Apple MacBook Air kannettavan tietokoneen ja 10 Apple iPod Shuffle -soitinta. Voit ilmoittautua arvontaan ja tilata työnhakijaprofiilin lomakkeen lopussa. Kyselyyn voit vastata myös nimettömästi. Kysely löytyy osoitteesta http://www.t-media.fi/tyonantajamaine2008 Jos linkki ei aukea klikkaamalla, kopioi se selaimen osoiteriville hiiren avulla. Kyseisessä osoitteessa on myös tarkempi kuvaus tutkimuksesta. Mukavia vastaushetkiä! Tutkimukseen liittyviin kysymyksiin vastaa: Päivi Salminen-Kultanen, T-media Oy Sähköposti: paivi.salminen-kultanen (at) t-media.fi ********************************************************************************************************************************************* Tiedon välitti, Sari Vähäkangas suunnittelija Oulun yliopisto Ohjaus- ja työelämäpalvelut PL 8100 90014 OULUN YLIOPISTO tel. +358 8 553 3590 fax +358 8 553 3597 www.oulu.fi/careerservices

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More feedback from a student
by Lloyd Ruddock 15 May '08

15 May '08

1) >?Would it be possible to get third year students to participate as > teachers in the first year practicals?? > ?Excellent suggestion (no payments though, only credits), but to work > it needs most of the third year to be willing to teach the first > years. Are they?? Although I can´t speak on behalf of every present second year students, many of us became already excited about the opportunity to teach the first year students the basic things of biochemistry practicals. Naturally, this requires time for -the teaching without any simultaneous lectures of our own, but otherwise at least I am in on that. 2) Some of the second year students seem to be also interested in going to schools to tell about biochemistry, if that is needed. I recall that eg. physics department did pay their students the money they had to spend on traveling to their own high school if they went to talk about physics in Oulu. I don´t know if that would work in our department and I think students might be willing to go without any fee (eg. to high schools in Oulu). The opportunity to go to schools could be encouraged in future, also before/after/while doing one´s BSc thesis (also "while", since if you do a poster you would have both something to show and to say). It would also be nice to know how interested the schools themselves are in getting someone to talk. Susanna Teppo I like both suggestions, but there are some implementation issues. Tuomo if you would like to make some general comments and then if we could discuss at the meeting next week. Also more student views on this and other issues would be useful. Finally, if people are wondering why I am sending these feedbacks from students to the bklists it is because the students can't as they are not on the bklist mailing group - Lloyd

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Forwarded from 1st year student
by Lloyd Ruddock 15 May '08

15 May '08

Hello, Seems there is interesting depate going on about feedback day issues. First I wish to thank for the very quick response on missing information about new master`s degree. Now even that it`s not complete yet, it gives us good insight what to expect in the future, thank you. When it comes to this language issue, yes it is true some first year students might feel it difficult. Still I think it is good to bring it in as early as possible, becouse we can`t hide english language forever. What we should do is to encourage students to use the language. We finns easily think, that we are not "allowed" to use the language before it`s fluent and almost perfect. I guess this way of thinking is just in our culture. Thats why many people feel it awkward or even embarrassing to actually use the language they do not fully master. Only way to get over it is to just use the english, even if its not that fluent. Next semester this might become easier, as new international master`s students come. I hope there will be interaction between nationalities, not separate two groups; we and those others. Medical school, yep people want there, some actually manage to go there. There are numerous of reasons why we lose students to medics, here is some: 1. Unfortunately biochemistry is a number 2. plan for those who try to get into medical school, and yes indeed we give good preparation for entering exam. ( actually biophysics gives even better preparation, they are dealing same problem?? ) 2. People are afraid of their future, what happens after graduation. Do we get any job? If yes, do we get any salary? As for graduated from medical shool, nowdays you get a job, you get very good income. And if you want, you get to do partially same kind of work as graduated from here. 3. High school graduates do not know that biochemistry exist, those who apply to medical school get to know it along the way as they read on entering exam. What could be done to prevent the loss. Setting our own entering exam on same day as medics is definitely bad idea, as we lose lot of good applicants right away. At this stage we can get advantage of our highly international department. We should advertise ourself; tell those high schoolers, that we can provide world class education on international level in biochemistry. Also make it clear at the very beginning, that some courses will be in english. This could be told already on high school visit, as the fact that this is not an easy way to go. This way we get students that are searching for challenges, and come for biochemistry, not for the plan 2. Yep these are just thoughts of a first year student, and regrets for those language mistakes..;) ~ Kalle

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FW: [Bklist] even more feedback
by Lloyd Ruddock 15 May '08

15 May '08

Apart from timetabling issues I see no problems with this and I can see some benefits. Perhaps Jari could comment on the timetable possibilities. -----Original Message----- From: bklist-bounces(a)lists.oulu.fi [mailto:bklist-bounces@lists.oulu.fi] On Behalf Of Antti Salo Sent: 14. toukokuuta 2008 15:55 To: bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi Subject: [Bklist] even more feedback one more thing to discuss... should/could microbiology be teached before cell biology? i feel microbiology labs should be before cell biology labs. i have no idea about lectures... Antti _______________________________________________ Bklist mailing list Bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi http://lists.oulu.fi/mailman/listinfo/bklist

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RE: [Bklist] short feedback
by Lloyd Ruddock 14 May '08

14 May '08

I was told by faculty at the start of the new system that students no longer have the legal right to answer in Finnish. I understand that there is a legal case on this issue (was it in Helsinki?) at the moment. In all my exams I use the following: "Answers should be given in English, but where necessary Finnish words can be inserted in brackets e.g. discuss the (totta vai tarua) of the following statement." -----Original Message----- From: bklist-bounces(a)lists.oulu.fi [mailto:bklist-bounces@lists.oulu.fi] On Behalf Of Sakari Kellokumpu Sent: 14. toukokuuta 2008 15:33 To: bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi Subject: [Bklist] short feedback Dear all, Some comments also on my behalf on the issues discussed. I have tried to cut them as short as possible: 1) we have to get feedback from all courses, many of them are now missing Previously, I do not recall we have had a lot of problems with getting the feedback. I do not know how many are exactly missing now but think that we should not worry too much about this at this point. It may just reflect the new teaching program and its implementation/organization with increased/heavier/more demanding courses. Moreover, we should also not make everything compulsory - remember that the students are here on a voluntary basis and will also leave/drop biochemistry on their own will. 2) Biokemian menetelmät I should be the first, and Biomolecules after that. The problem here as I understood appears to be the work load combined with lectures and teaching in english during the 1st year. If neither the order nor the language of the courses can be changed (based on comments)then there is nothing left besides complaints. I think this is not we want. Perhaps the easiest way to resolve the issue would be to reverse the order of the two courses. The students may not really be as "ignorant" as we think and perhaps will understand the methods course without having a prior course on Biomolecules. Jari perhaps would be the best person to give comments on this. Nevertheless, we need to respond to the complaints in some way- otherwise the students stop giving feedback totally. 3) Finns should teach in Finnish, not in English and 4) English teching is OK, if it is supportive, not pressing too much We all know that english is the working language of Science. The only problem in my mind is that it comes too early for our students (remember feedback day) and makes first things taught more difficult for them to understand. Furthermore, we should also keep the right to teach students in finnish, especially if only finns are around. Otherwise - as in one of my previous courses when a foreign student assigned for the course but never appeared - the whole teaching session kept in english was disturbing (not only because of my english) for all of us. Finally, just to remind that there is currently a lot of finnish used in written exams, tests (kypsyysnäyte) and pro gradu theses as well as in various administrative reports. I have understood that finnish students have a legal right to use finnish in all of these. This means that finnish must remain as an alternative teaching language. best Sakari _______________________________________________ Bklist mailing list Bklist(a)lists.oulu.fi http://lists.oulu.fi/mailman/listinfo/bklist

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Feedback discussion
by Lloyd Ruddock 14 May '08

14 May '08

Dear all, Student views are very important for the discussion, but you may not be able to post them to the staff bklist. If you send comments to me I will forward them to all. Please remember to make comments constructive and not destructive. VBW, Lloyd

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Another forward response from a student
by Lloyd Ruddock 14 May '08

14 May '08

-----Original Message----- From: Janne Petteri Capra [mailto:jannecap@mail.student.oulu.fi] Sent: 13. toukokuuta 2008 18:37 To: Lloyd.Ruddock(a)oulu.fi Subject: Re: [Histoni] RE: [Bklist] more about feedback "the third major timetabling issue is the lack of practical classes in the 3rd year. As discussed at feedback day in part this arose due to no practicals on the Cell Communication courses this year. However the major reason is that it was planned this way so that students could have the maximum flexibility for choosing their optional courses from other departments. With few practical classes and the large amount of self study in the BSc thesis we thought that students could have the flexibility to really do what they really wanted to do. We could balance the number of practicals between the years, but this would mean a serious loss of timetable flexibility in the 3rd year. Please could 3rd year students respon on this issue." A giant amount of text, again, so I'm just quickly replying for the above part before I start reading to an exam. As mentioned earlier, we only had a half day to quickly scrap together some opinions about the BSc as a whole. There were couple of mentions about the amount of practicals in the third year but personally I rather disagree. Many students feel that their already inferior lab skills get rusty immediately if they have a little longer break from practical working. And at the start of every lab course they feel lost and have to think every move twice. I feel this too, but I felt it last year, where there basically was labs after labs. So I do not think that more practicals (after labs for Cell communications are added) would make much difference. On the other hand, we do not have many chances to do optional courses we want due to the robust structure of the degree. The third year is excellent for that, and I would not change it. At least not too much. But students just love their practical courses so much, they are addicted to them. Thinking is hard work, especially after a lab day (NB; which we love and want more. This is either masochism or an example of the passion you mentioned in your text), so I do not have anything else to add right now. Yours, Janne

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Liikuntavuorojen käyttäjille
by Olli Niemitalo 14 May '08

14 May '08

Anon Histonille harjoitusvuoroja ensi lukuvuodelle, ja tätä varten pitää arvioida harrastajamäärät sukupuolen mukaan eroteltuna. Koska muistini on hatara, voisitko ilmoittaa minulle, jos kävit lukuvuoden 2007-2008 aikana Histonin liikuntavuoroilla. Minkä päivien vuoroja olet käyttänyt? Myös KE sulkisvuoro lasketaan. Vastatkaahan reippaasti heti! -olli

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Feedback
by Kalle Pehkonen 14 May '08

14 May '08

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histoni May 2008