I also would like to stress some points about these issues. This message may be forwarded to other people if it is seen helpful, but I myself would like to remain anonymous.
Someone already mentioned that the job/salary situation makes some students quite insecure and worried. I can't exactly point out where this comes from, but it's very hard to avoid hearing at least some depressing comments about the unemployement etc. It's actually quite hard to exactly point out where this comes from because there have been these events where people outside the university come to talk about their careers (maybe it's has not been convincing enough?). Also I think at least some older students tend to talk about the matter, so that can be one source too.
Many people would like their job to be well paid (or at least adequate) and not to worry about unemployement and part-time jobs. So it seems quite logical in some way that even people, who originally were not that interested about going to the medical field, may change their mind because becoming a doctor is very secure thing to do when thinking about the salary and employement, besides it's one of the few professions where one can use their problem solving ability combining their knowledge of biology, biochemistry and some other natural sciences (so if thought this way, it's not actually that far from biochemistry, the biggest difference being the close contact with the clients).
So in my opinion ot would do a lot of good to get the new students more confident about the work employement/salary situation. Though I can't come up with any new ideas which haven't been tried already. I also like the idea about going to school to talka about biochemistry because it is very likely many of the "lukio" students haven't ever heard about the subject before.
Lloyd's additional comments - the last time there was a survey biochemistry students were amongst the highest employment rate in the faculty. Another international survey had our area of science being the 2nd faster growth rate world wide for jobs (after information communications technology). Our students are VERY highly wanted on the medical faculty to do research. There are issues job wise, but that holds true in many fields. One reason we decided to take on international students rather than increase the output of Finnish students is because they are likely to move away from Finland after they complete and so are unlikely to compete for the same jobs. There is a lot to be positive about, but it is not as secure nor as well paid as becoming a doctor.
Hei,
Pretty much everything about teaching is said, what I also though, so I just comment this latest mail...
On Thu, 15 May 2008, Lloyd Ruddock wrote:
Someone already mentioned that the job/salary situation makes some students quite insecure and worried. I can't exactly point out where this comes from, but it's very hard to avoid hearing at least some depressing comments about the unemployement etc. It's actually quite hard to exactly point out where this comes from because there have been these events where people outside the university come to talk about their careers (maybe it's has not been convincing enough?). Also I think at least some older students tend to talk about the matter, so that can be one source too.
According to my knowledge job/salary situation is not extremely terrible in Finland, but most of the available positions, especially around Oulu are periodic university positions. To get a normal job in Oulu is difficult. We should not lie about this fact. However, If you are ready to move, you probably don´t have to be ever unemployed, if you don´t want to. Check for example naturejobs.com...
So in my opinion ot would do a lot of good to get the new students more confident about the work employement/salary situation. Though I can't come up with any new ideas which haven't been tried already. I
To be a honest, salary for young biochemist is not very competive at the moment, if you compare it to other academic positions. With same "work-load" you can earn more in somewhere else, as I have discussed with my friends from other fields (most doing programming, which is extremely boring in my mind). However, I think we are still in better situation than e.g. librarians :)...
So, after all it is just about the values you have in your life. If you just want to earn lot of money, you might be happier in some other field than in biochemistry.
br, Antti Rivinoja
ps: Combination of degrees in biochemistry and medicine is not the worst combination.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Antti Rivinoja, M.Sc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Oulun yliopisto, University of Oulu, Biokemian laitos Department of Biochemistry PL 3000, PL 3000, 90014 OULUN YLIOPISTO 90014 OULUN YLIOPISTO Finland
fax 08-5531141 fax 08-5531141 puh.toimisto 08-5531148 tel. office 08-5531148 puh.labra 08-5531157 tel. lab 08-5531157 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Antti Rivinoja -
Lloyd Ruddock